"Did you know as a child that you were transgender?"

"I knew I was different, but I didn’t know how to define it. One of my first memories was going to church with my family. I wore what all the little boys had to wear: A white button-up shirt with a bow tie. I would sit and watch the little girls come in wearing frilly clothes and barrettes in their hair. And I would envy them because that was how I wanted to look."

" How did you finally realize you were transgender?"

"Actually it wasn’t until many years later, when I saw a talk show featuring two cross-dressers from Chicago. Watching them, it clicked. That’s me. "

" Did you run out and buy a dress that day?"

"Not until a few years later. My then wife had to go out of town for a few days. That gave me the opportunity. But I realized early on that I had to get my own 'stuff.' It was a matter of respect. Her things were her property. So I started collecting my own wardrobe. At first I could fit everything I bought into a coffee can."

" Did your wife discover the clothes?"

"Oh no! You become an expert at hiding things. Not all my tool boxes in the garage had tools in them, if you know what I mean. You learn to cherish times home alone. It was a wonderful time to be together with myself, learning who I was and expressing that. I used to rent cheap motel rooms to change clothes on nights I was free to be Debra and go out. That’s how I lived for many years. It’s a tough way to live. And it was hard to go back into the male role, pretending to be this 'guy' around the house and teaching at school. It was an emotional time."

Michelle:

" How did your wife handle it when you finally did tell her?"

"She was very supportive. We hugged and cried and talked about it. We actually laughed about some of it too. Then we decided to find out more information together. We went to a national transgender conference in Boston."

" Did you go as Debra or David?"

"I went as Debra. Actually that was when I got my new name. At the conference there was a space to fill in your female name, and I didn’t have one yet. My wife and I did what new parents do: We went to our old baby book. When we had our girls, we used a four-star method to choose names, with four stars being our favorites. Only three names in the book had four stars. Two of the names we had used for our daughters. The third name was Debra. So Debra was born. I picked Davis because I liked the sound of Debbie Davis, not realizing at the time that Davis is close to David. I must have done that subconsciously."

" So you began living two lives. What was the hardest part of living in that duality?"

"After the divorce in 1994, I was out everywhere except for work. Debra had a closet and so did David. Having to pretend to be David at work was the hardest part for me. I literally felt like I had to act and cross-dress as a man. I didn’t want to live a lie anymore."

" Speaking of coming out at work, what do you think made that so successful?"

"A lot of planning, for one. I had a team of about six ‘safe staff,’ and for months we talked about my coming out and planned it. The next step was coming out to all of the school personnel. I had a meeting as Debra and told them who I was and why I was doing this. The whole staff applauded. Then I asked for their help in how to prepare the students. We decided to tell the students the next day in their homeroom classes. We had information sheets along with question and answer sheets prepared for the students."

" In order to pull this off, I would think David would have had to have been an incredible person and well respected by the staff and students."

"That’s true. They liked David. But it shouldn’t have to matter, it shouldn’t make a difference. But I think it made a difference for me."

" How did the students respond?"

"The students rocked. There was one female student who stood at my desk and just stared at me for a long time. Finally she said “You’re the same person you were before.” I smiled back at her and said “Yes I am.”" She hought for a moment, smiled back at me and said "Well, You Go Girl!"

" What about your two daughters. Did they know by this point?"

"Yes. My wife and I told them a few years before. We had a family meeting, and they knew it was serious. We never had family meetings. My wife, who was very involved in the GLBT community, did most of the talking. The girls, then in junior high and high school, asked to see a picture. So I showed them a Glamour Shots picture I had taken as Debra. My youngest daughter said, “Wow,” and my oldest daughter said, “I don’t believe it.” I took that as compliments. But you know what Glamour Shots can do. They can make anyone look pretty."

"How do you define transgender?"

"I see transgender as a huge umbrella that covers anyone who feels different about their gender. Transgender ranges from one extreme of a man or woman who wears clothing of the opposite geneder once in a while, to full-time crossdressers, to a transsexual person who changes their body parts through hormones or surgery or both."

" What pulls someone to be transsexual versus a full-time crossdresser?"

"It’s just a matter of how far you need to go to for your soul to be comfortable in your own skin. Changing your body parts is pretty radical. The vast majority of transgender people are not transsexual. In fact, if you go by the statistics, less than one-tenth of 1 percent of transgender people want to change their physical bodies."

" Well, what about butch dykes, who are very masculine. Do you consider them to be transgender?"

"I wouldn’t consider them that. I don’t define anybody. But they could easily fall under that umbrella. People are afraid of the term. It’s sometimes okay to be a lesbian, but not a transgender lesbian. If you decide you are transgender within the lesbian community, traditionally speaking, you may lose most of your friends. Because now you are not "really" a lesbian, you are crossing over. But that is changing now. Most F to M (female to male) folks, do come out of the lesbian community. They first identified themselves as lesbians, then realize that’s not who they really are."

" So if you feel like a woman trapped in a man’s body, how do you deal with your male form?"

"For me, the physical aspect of who I was did not exist for me. I did not accept my physical form. I had a moustache for a time. But when I looked in the mirror, I saw a girl looking back at me."

" I believe that part of our being-ness is to balance our masculine and feminine aspects. I think we are both. In your core, do you see yourself as a woman?"

"Physically we are both. We all have male and female hormones. But there is the core of a woman here. And now that I fully accept and love that part of me, I wonder if it’s time for me to look back at David and incorporate the best parts of him back into Debra. Because David was a nice, gentle man - - if he ever really was a man."

" With all the introspection you have had to do in your life, I bet you have a well developed spiritual side. Can you comment on that?"

"I believe there is some sprit that guides us. We have to make our own choices, but there is something out there. I know that it guides and directs me. I am not too concerned if you call it God, Jesus, Buddha or whatever. I also believe that spirit is kind and loving. This is where I separate from organized religion. I also believe that spirit created me as a transgender person and gave me the self-esteem to know I’m okay. And when you think about it, that’s pretty awesome."

   Coverage about Debra's story in the StarTribune Newspaper May 5, 1998

   More About Debra Davis' Coming Out Story, Her Family, and Community Awards

   Information About Transgenderism: Human Sexuality Scales, Definitions, and Resource List

   What is a GLBT Ally and How Do You Measure Up?

   Transgenderism in the Workplace: Guidelines for Employers & Employees

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